Bret Weintein debates Jonathan Pageau with Jordan Hall on whether science or religion can save humanity from itself.

Find Jonathan Pageau at https://www.thesymbolicworld.com and on x at https://x.com/PageauJonathan

Bret thanks Redeemer Anglican Church for loaning them the space to do this podcast.

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Sponsors:

Fresh-Pressed Olive Oil Club: Scrumptious & freshly harvested. Go to http://www.GetFreshDarkHorse.com to get a bottle of the best olive oil you’ve ever had for $1 shipping.

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Join DarkHorse on Locals! Get access to our Discord server, exclusive live streams, live chats for all streams, and early access to many podcasts: https://darkhorse.locals.com

Check out the DHP store! Epic tabby, digital book burning, saddle up the dire wolves, and more: https://www.darkhorsestore.org

Theme Music: Thank you to Martin Molin of Wintergatan for providing us the rights to use their excellent music.

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Mentioned in this episode:

Ancient Wisdom, Modern World: Bret Speaks with Jonathan Pageau https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NYz1DJ4ByM

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Bret Weinstein speaks with Joshua Stylman, an entrepreneur, investor and Covid dissident about societal manipulation and social engineering. The conversation focuses around a recent Substack piece by Stylman on “The Enemy is Not Each Other.”

Find Joshua Stylman on Substack at https://stylman.substack.com, on X at https://x.com/jstylman, and on Instagram at http://instagram.com/stylman.

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This episode is sponsored by:

Fresh Pressed Olive Oil Club: Scrumptious & freshly harvested. Go to http://www.GetFreshDarkHorse.com to get a bottle of the best olive oil you’ve ever had for $1 shipping.

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Join DarkHorse on Locals! Get access to our Discord server, exclusive live streams, live chats for all streams, and early access to many podcasts: https://darkhorse.locals.com

Check out the DHP store! Epic tabby, digital book burning, saddle up the dire wolves, and more: https://www.darkhorsestore.org

Theme Music: Thank you to Martin Molin of Wintergatan for providing us the rights to use their excellent music.

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Bret recommends you read:

The Enemy Is Not Each Other https://stylman.substack.com/p/the-enemy-is-not-each-other

The Authentication Layer https://stylman.substack.com/p/the-authentication-layer

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On this, our 322nd Evolutionary Lens livestream, we discuss the Cartesian crisis, whether going to the moon is valuable, and college in the age of AI. Before the ads, we discuss the nature of knowledge, and whether paying attention all the time, to all the things, can backfire and make a personal less capable of comprehension. Later: why go to the moon? An op-ed writer at The Guardian says there’s no point—there’s nothing to see, no one to talk to. We discuss the value of science—not just in terms of what we become capable of doing, but also for the human values of awe and wonder, openness and curiosity. As humans, we must encourage discovery, innovation, and exploration; we cannot cave to the fearful, provincial, and bland. Finally: professors and students are in an arms race over AI. A better move would be to seek two wildly different educational modes: one in which no outside sources of knowledge are available at all (e.g. a remote site with no cell service), and classroom-based work that encourages engagement and learning from and with the AI.

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Join us on Locals! Get access to our Discord server, exclusive live streams, live chats for all streams, and early access to many podcasts: https://darkhorse.locals.com/

Heather’s newsletter, Natural Selections (subscribe to get free weekly essays in your inbox): https://naturalselections.substack.com

Our book, A Hunter-Gatherer’s Guide to the 21st Century, is available everywhere books are sold, including from Amazon: https://amzn.to/3AGANGg (commission earned)

Check out our store! Epic tabby, digital book burning, saddle up the dire wolves, and more: https://darkhorsestore.org

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Mentioned in this episode:

Guardian op-ed: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/apr/07/artemis-ii-space-travel-moon

NASA’s take: https://www.nasa.gov/missions/nasa-answers-your-most-pressing-artemis-ii-questions/

TikTok video: https://x.com/LaNativePatriot/status/2042882244034076747

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