My guest for Episode #533 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Cheryl Jekiel, founder of the Lean Leadership Center and a longtime advocate for aligning continuous improvement with people-centered leadership.

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Cheryl is the author of Lean Human Resources, and her latest book, Let Go to Lead: Six Habits for Happier, More Independent Teams (with Less Stress and More Time for Yourself), offers a practical and deeply human approach to modern leadership. With a background in HR and operations, Cheryl has spent decades helping organizations shift from hierarchical control to empowering, team-driven excellence.

In this episode, Cheryl shares her "Lean origin story," which began with a broken-down Ford and a transformative experience at Sweetheart Cup, where she witnessed firsthand how Lean thinking and redefined leadership roles could enhance both performance and the quality of work life. We discuss the importance of clarity in leadership--why vague directives like "take ownership" or "be proactive" often fail without behavioral specificity--and how shifting from being the problem-solver to being the coach can help leaders reduce stress and build truly independent teams. Cheryl also highlights how many organizations discuss empowerment but lack the necessary structures or shared understanding to actually enable it.

"We keep saying 'empower people,' but most organizations haven't defined what that actually means."

We also explore topics like vulnerability in leadership, the power of peer support communities, and how concepts like motivational interviewing--borrowed from healthcare and addiction counseling--can help leaders foster meaningful behavior change. Cheryl makes a compelling case for leadership as a practiced skill, not a fixed trait, and she encourages organizations to treat leadership development as an ongoing discipline. Whether you're an executive, HR leader, or improvement coach, this conversation offers actionable insight into how leaders can truly "let go to lead."

• What's your Lean origin story, and how did it shape your thinking?
• How did your early experience at Sweetheart Cup influence your views on leadership and improvement?
• Did you start your career in HR, or was that a later shift?
• What led you to write Lean Human Resources and later start the Lean Leadership Center?
• What was the inspiration for your new book, Let Go to Lead?
• Are the six habits in your book rooted in traditional Lean leadership concepts, or do they expand on them?
• Why is clarity such a critical leadership skill, and why do so many leaders struggle with it?
• How do vague directives like "be proactive" or "take ownership" get in the way of effective leadership?
• What role does psychological safety play in helping teams ask clarifying questions?
• What's one of the habits you've found most overlooked or undervalued by leaders?
• Why is community and peer support so essential to leadership development?
• How do you help leaders embrace vulnerability in a culture that doesn't always reward it?
• What's the role of ongoing practice in leadership development, and why isn't it emphasized more?
• How does motivational interviewing relate to Lean leadership and coaching?
• How can leaders avoid the trap of trying to be "right" rather than being helpful?
• Why is "meeting people where they are" such a vital leadership practice?
• What advice would you give to leaders who want to let go of control without abdicating responsibility?
• What's the connection between letting go and reducing stress for leaders?
• Is there anything else you'd like to share about your book or your work?

This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

My guest for Episode #532 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Anne Frewin, a seasoned Lean leader with over 12 years of improvement experience in healthcare, laboratories, and manufacturing.

Updated with the correct audio

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Anne's background in finance and healthcare administration provided her with a unique entry point into Lean -- first supporting improvement efforts through data, and then stepping fully into the role of change agent. She shares the story of how a persistent mentor who always asked "why" helped her shift from just reporting metrics to developing problem-solving thinking and leading transformation efforts herself.

In this conversation, Anne and I explore how Lean principles, such as respect for people, effective idea systems, and a problem-solving culture, manifest in real-world settings. She explains why she prioritizes coaching people to become relentless problem solvers and how systems like visual management and simple idea boards, when supported with good questions, can lead to safer, more efficient work. We also discuss how Lean applies differently (but effectively) across industries, the balance between improvement and documentation, and how to avoid siloed thinking when solving cross-functional challenges--especially in healthcare.

"A strong idea system is the first real show of respect for people--it tells the frontline we value their insight and want them to own the solution."

Anne also shares her perspective on Lean, Six Sigma, and Lean Six Sigma, offering a practical framework for how these approaches can coexist while serving different purposes. Throughout the episode, we reflect on systems thinking, psychological safety, and the importance of learning through experimentation. Whether you're in healthcare, manufacturing, or any people-centric industry, Anne's passion for leadership development and continuous improvement offers valuable insights.

• How did you first get exposed to Lean, and why did it resonate with you?
• Looking back, did your mentor's persistent "why" questions help develop your thinking more than if he had been directive?
• How would you explain the concept of a Lean operating system to an executive unfamiliar with it?
• What's the difference between "respecting people" and "respect for people" in your view?
• Can you share an example of an effective idea system that truly engages frontline staff?
• How do you balance employee-generated ideas with the need for leadership support and coaching?
• What's your approach to helping people decide whether to use a rapid improvement event, an A3, or a PDSA cycle?
• What are the three questions you use to evaluate whether an idea is safe to try?
• How do you coach teams to iterate and learn from problems when working across functional silos?
• Can you share a healthcare example where process mapping revealed hidden breakdowns or assumptions?
• How do you handle improvement suggestions that require significant changes, like IT systems or facility layout?
• How do you view the relationship between safety, quality, delivery, and financial performance?
• What's your perspective on Lean vs. Six Sigma vs. Lean Six Sigma, based on your experience?
• How do you see variation reduction as part of Lean, not just Six Sigma?
• What was it like moving from healthcare into manufacturing? What was surprisingly transferable?
• Did you encounter documentation or quality systems in manufacturing that got in the way of improvement?
• How do you deal with the extremes--either lack of standardization or over-control through documentation?
• What reflections do you have about the human side of improvement--what helps people succeed in these systems?

This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.

In this bonus episode of Lean Blog Interviews, host Mark Graban welcomes back Patrick Adams, founder of the Lean Solutions team and author of Avoiding the Continuous Appearance Trap—a Shingo Publication Award-winning book. Patrick joins the show to preview the 2025 Lean Solutions Summit, taking place September 23–25 in Detroit, Michigan, at the Westin Detroit Airport.

This year’s theme—“Catalysts of Tomorrow: Shaping Future Leaders”—focuses on equipping the next generation of Lean and continuous improvement professionals with the mindset, tools, and leadership capabilities needed to thrive. The summit will feature high-impact keynote presentations, hands-on workshops, and an all-new Executive Track designed specifically for senior leaders.

Patrick and Mark discuss the keynotes from Lean legends and storytellers including Mike Rother, Tom Root of Zingerman’s, Stefan Thurner, and more. Other familiar faces in the Lean community—like Katie Anderson, Billy Taylor, and Tilo Schwarz—will return to lead breakout sessions and support the event’s popular Lean Excellence World Championship. This hands-on competition not only builds problem-solving skills but also supports a local Detroit nonprofit through real impact.

Whether you're a seasoned leader or a student just beginning your Lean journey, the 2025 Lean Solutions Summit promises inspiration, actionable insights, and meaningful connections.

🌐 Learn more & register: findleansolutions.com/lean-solutions-summit