**You’re invited to join us Tuesday evening for Macro ‘n Chill, an online gathering where we can listen to and talk about this episode. Tuesday July 15, 8pm ET/5 pm PT

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This week we're releasing an interview Steve did as a guest of Jim Byrne, host of MMT101 podcast.

Steve and Jim have much in common, so it’s interesting to hear how their approaches differ. In part, this is related to the conditions of their nationalities. Jim, in Scotland, isn’t faced with the myth of political democracy. They have a devolved government, under the thumb of Westminster, with no control over the economic levers. The demands are straightforward: more money... and independence.

Jim says he prefers to see MMT “purely as a technical – almost a technical description – with a bit of theory thrown in there, because of course T stands for theory.”

Steve describes his 15-year journey with MMT. Originally, he focused on the “wonky stuff,” the mechanics of the monetary system. He came to understand that people aren’t interested until they can see how it relates to their own lives. Today he maintains that MMT should be connected to real-world issues such as class struggle, poverty, student debt, and geopolitical conflicts like the horrific situation in Gaza.

The episode is a great conversation between two MMT activists. Despite their differences, they find they have much in common.

Jim Byrne is currently developing an MMT foundation course aimed at beginners and intermediate learners, as well as people who already know about economics but are curious about Modern Monetary Theory.

Follow his work and the MMT101 podcast at mmt101.substack.com

@MMT101DotORG

**Tuesday evenings, we host an online listening party, Macro ‘n Chill, to discuss the current episode. It’s a great way to get to know other members of the community and talk about the ideas expressed in the podcast. Join us this Tuesday, July 8th, at 8 pm ET/5 pm PT Click HERE to register

Scott Ferguson and Ben Wilson of the Money on the Left collective discuss their ‘Blue Bonds’ proposal with Steve. They explain how states can issue bonds to mitigate the federal austerity measures being enacted under the Trump administration. The conversation explores how this approach could democratize fiscal policy at the sub-federal level and empower local governments.

Their proposal frames state-issued bonds as a democratic tool to counteract federal inefficiencies, foster local investment and engage communities in financial decision-making.

They also address the ideological and practical barriers concerning the public's grasp of economic sovereignty, stressing the importance of understanding endogenous money creation and challenging the collective fear of public debt.

Benjamin C. Wilson is an Associate Professor of Economics at the State University of New York at Cortland and a research scholar at the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity.

Scott Ferguson is an Associate Professor of Film & Media Studies in the Department of Humanities & Cultural Studies at the University of South Florida and a research scholar at the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity. He is co-host of Money on the Left podcast featured by Monthly Review.

Part of our mission is to introduce MMTers to socialism and socialists to MMT. We’ve had a few metaphorical doors slammed in our faces along the way. Former friends from the MMT community now delight in slinging accusations worthy of a HUAC hearing, while some socialists suspect modern monetary theory is just a sideshow of bourgeois economics. So, we didn’t know what to expect when we reached out to Justin and Jeremy, co-hosts of a podcast we’ve long admired. Compared to the vicious rejection we sometimes encounter, their good faith skepticism felt like a warm embrace. They invited Steve and Virginia to come onto Proles Pod and make a case for the radicalizing potential of MMT.

The conversation goes into the role of the state in currency issuance, the coercive nature of taxation, and how MMT can critique and unveil the inherent power dynamics within capitalism. Austerity, that devastating weapon of class warfare, is not a glitch; it’s a feature.

Virginia asks that listeners stop using the expression taxpayer money. “Even if you’re not ready to wrap your mind around MMT, just start calling it public money. You might not believe where it comes from but just stop. It's public money.” Given the classist, racist implications of relying on taxpayers to fund the government, a change in language is a good first step. Steve adds: “Whatever you tax, you immortalize. Whatever you tax, if you believe it's funding, you need forever.” The state is the source of currency; let’s stop elevating billionaires.

They look at the relationship between currency manipulation, inflation, and global economic dominance. They also touch on Gramsci and the impact of cultural hegemony. Ultimately, they agree on the necessity of a class-based analysis as a prerequisite for revolutionary change.

Proles Pod is a podcast about history, politics, and culture... without the liberalism

Find their work at prolespod.libsyn.com/

Support them at patreon.com/prolespod

Follow them @ProlesPod on X

If civilizations are judged by how they care for their elderly, our report card is already written. Should there be anyone left to judge us – should humanity exist long enough to judge us – we’ve flunked.

Steve’s guest is Judy Karofsky, author of 'DisElderly Conduct: The Flawed Business of Assisted Living and Hospice,' who provides a critical examination of the elder care industry. Judy discusses her own struggles with assisted living facilities and hospice care, highlighting the systemic issues driven by the profit motive and lack of federal oversight.

Assisted living is meant to be for seniors who don’t yet need a nursing home. The facilities are supposed to provide the dignity of independence with up to three hours of care per week. Unfortunately, that means from zero to three. Often, it’s zero – with no nurse on staff.

In many cases the move from independent living isn’t a health decision. It’s business. The assisted living business is about real estate investment, not the needs of our nation’s seniors.

Steve makes a case that will be familiar to our followers: that healthcare – and its federal oversight – are policy decisions, connected to ideology. It’s the belief that there is no public money.

The episode illustrates the urgent need for reform in elder care. These challenges will one day touch everyone’s lives or those of their loved ones.

Judy Karofsky was a city council member and one of Wisconsin’s first women mayors (Middleton). During her term of office, she established a now-thriving senior center and emergency medical services. She served on the executive staff of a governor and held multiple roles in housing and economic development for a state agency, a nonprofit housing development organization, and her own research firm. Before organizing and providing care for her mother, Judy filled interim positions for a statewide women's network – focusing on elder economic security – and for a coalition of state aging groups. Serving on nonprofit and municipal boards, she participates in policy discussions and comments publicly on demographic trends and urban growth.

**On Tuesday evening, C. Derick Varn will join us AGAIN for Macro ‘n Chill, our weekly community gathering. While listening to this episode, we will have the opportunity to ask questions and engage in discussion about Part Two. June 17th, 8 pm ET/5 pm PT Click HERE to register

The second half of Steve’s conversation with Derick Varn goes into the history of the socialist movement from the 1960s to the present.

Derick traces some of the current factionalism back to the ideological battles between Trotsky and Stalin covered in Part One of this series. This includes the debates on ‘socialism in one country’ versus international socialism. He covers further divisions within Trotskyism, the Red Scare’s successful suppression of the CPUSA, and the formation of the Black Panthers. He describes the rise of Maoism, its influence on student movements in the West, and further ideological splits.

Steve and Derick emphasize that historical developments are always connected to the material conditions of their time. Even the Bernie Sanders movement. They talk of the struggles intrinsic to past and present socialist organizations and reflect on the modern implications of these ideologies and the challenges of organizing under current capitalist conditions.

C. Derick Varn is a poet, teacher, and political theorist. He is the host of Varn Vlog. He was a reader at Zer0 books from 2015 to 2021. He spent most of the 2010s outside the U.S. in the Republic of Korea, Mexico, and Egypt. He is the author of the poetry collections, Apocalyptics and Liberation and All the Bright Etcetera.

https://varnblog.substack.com

Find all his links at https://allmylinks.com/dionysuseatsyou

**This Tuesday evening, C. Derick Varn will join us for Macro ‘n Chill, our weekly community gathering. While listening to this episode, folks will have the opportunity to ask questions and engage in discussion. June 10th, 8 pm ET/5 pm PT Click HERE to register

This episode is the first of a two-part discussion delving into historical splits within socialism. C. Derick Varn, the host of Varn Vlog, has an extensive background in philosophy, anthropology, and history. He takes us from the First and Second Internationals to the ideological divergences of Trotskyism and Stalinism. He also discusses the factions within Leninism, the impact of World War I on socialist strategies, and the emergence of Trotskyist and Marxist-Leninist thought. The episode navigates through key historical figures, including Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin. Of course it wouldn’t be Macro N Cheese without a look at Modern Monetary Theory and its place in a discussion of socialist theory.

C. Derick Varn is a poet, teacher, and political theorist. He is the host of Varn Vlog. He was a reader at Zer0 books from 2015 to 2021. He spent most of the 2010s outside the U.S. in the Republic of Korea, Mexico, and Egypt. He is the author of the poetry collections, Apocalyptics and Liberation and All the Bright Etcetera.

https://varnblog.substack.com

Find all his links at https://allmylinks.com/dionysuseatsyou

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There's an oft-repeated Chris Hedges quote that goes: “I do not fight fascists because I will win. I fight fascists because they are fascists.” Well, that’s how we feel about the banks. Revolutionary change is only possible when people understand the institutions of power. The banking system plays a huge role in perpetuating class division and disciplining labor.

Christopher Shaw is the author of Money, Power, and the People. He talks to Steve about America’s long struggle to democratize banking, drawing connections between past and present economic conditions and inequalities. The discussion spans the creation of the Federal Reserve, populist movements, and key moments of financial reform from the Gilded Age to the New Deal.

Delving into the history of banking and economic injustice, he emphasizes grassroots movements led by farmers, workers, and unions against banking oligarchies. Key periods include the post-Civil War Gilded Age, the Panic of 1907, and the Great Depression. The conversation transitions to recent times, highlighting the deregulation era, the rise of neoliberalism, and movements like Occupy Wall Street. As always Steve challenges the audience to learn from history, stressing that real change requires collective action.

Christopher W. Shaw is a historian, author, and policy analyst. He has written extensively on the postal system, and the history of banking, money, labor, agriculture, and social movements. Most recently, he has authored First Class: The U.S. Postal Service, Democracy, and the Corporate Threat (City Lights Books, 2021) as well as Money, Power, and the People: The American Struggle to Make Banking Democratic (University of Chicago Press, 2019).

@chris_w_shaw on Twitter

The podcast focuses on the critical need to address the root causes of health and environmental crises, emphasizing that many diseases, including cancer, are largely influenced by environmental factors and capitalism's exploitative nature. Hamza Hamouchene talks about his reasons for leaving a career in cancer research, highlighting the disillusionment he faced when he realized that the focus was on profit rather than genuine health solutions.

Hamza and Steve make a case against a capitalist system that not only externalizes costs related to health and the environment but also perpetuates inequities, particularly affecting marginalized communities. They delve into interconnected struggles from climate justice to the fight against imperialism, and stress the importance of collective action and the need for a revolutionary vision that prioritizes social and economic justice. Ultimately, the episode serves as a call to action for listeners to engage in grassroots movements and challenge the status quo, advocating for an ecosocialist future where health and environmental care are public goods rather than commodities.

Hamza Hamouchene is a London-based Algerian researcher-activist, commentator and a founding member of Algeria Solidarity Campaign (ASC), and Environmental Justice North Africa (EJNA). He previously worked for War on Want, Global Justice Now and Platform London on issues of extractivism, resources, land and food sovereignty as well as climate, environmental, and trade justice.