What happens when a leader decides they're done leading? In this episode, Bob and Josh tackle one of the most uncomfortable topics in technical leadership: stepping down from a leadership role. Whether you're the one considering walking away from the org chart, or a team member just told you they want out, this conversation is for you.

Bob shares his personal story of transitioning from a senior development leadership role at iContact to an agile coaching position—a move that required navigating salary adjustments, title changes, and the inevitable shift in organizational perception. He credits his boss Ralph Kusuba for handling the conversation with grace and business acumen, recognizing Bob's value beyond just his title.

The hosts draw an important distinction between organizational leadership (titles, org charts, formal authority) and leadership as a way of being (influence, modeling great teammate behavior, cultural contribution). While you can step away from the former, Bob argues you can never truly abdicate the latter—and he'd "smack you with your own hat" if you tried.

They also explore how to recognize when someone has genuinely reached their limit versus when they're just hitting a sticky spot that coaching can help them push through. The key insight: if you're leading well, these conversations should be rare. And when they do happen, the leader's job is to find a gracious glide path—just like NFL coaches who step back to coordinator roles and become invaluable advisors to first-time head coaches.

Josh Anderson's "Leadership Lighthouse"

Dive deeper into the world of Agile leadership and management with Josh Anderson's "Leadership Lighthouse." This bi-weekly newsletter offers insights, tips, and personal stories to help you navigate the complexities of leadership in today's fast-paced tech environment. Whether you're a new manager or a seasoned leader, you'll find valuable guidance and practical advice to enhance your leadership skills. Subscribe to "Leadership Lighthouse" for the latest articles and exclusive content right to your inbox.

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Bob Galen's "Agile Moose"

Bob Galen's "Agile Moose" is a must-read for anyone interested in Agile practices, team dynamics, and personal growth within the tech industry. The newsletter features in-depth analysis, case studies, and actionable tips to help you excel in your Agile journey. Bob brings his extensive experience and thoughtful perspectives directly to you, covering everything from foundational Agile concepts to advanced techniques. Join a community of Agile enthusiasts and practitioners by subscribing to "Agile Moose."

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We publish video versions of every episode and post them on our YouTube page.

Help Us Spread The Word:

Love our content? Help us out by sharing on social media, rating our podcast/episodes on iTunes, or by giving to our Patreon campaign. Every time you give, in any way, you empower our mission of helping as many agilists as possible. Thanks for sharing!

In this provocative episode, Bob and Josh flip the script on their usual leadership-focused content. Instead of critiquing leaders, they're calling out team members who constantly blame their bosses for everything that's wrong.

Bob opens with a pattern he's observed for decades: the endless "we could do X if only they would get on board" mentality that permeates lean coffees, webinars, and workplace conversations. He's tired of watching people demonize, marginalize, and stereotype their leaders without any self-reflection.

Josh shares his personal journey of learning to "manage up" — a transformation that began when he admitted to Bob that he was frustrated with his own leaders. What started as finger-pointing became a year-long commitment to understanding what leaders actually face. The result? A complete perspective shift. Once Josh understood the impossible balancing acts, the endless problem-solving, and the human struggles behind the title, his frustration transformed into partnership.

The hosts challenge listeners to:

1. Stop using phrases like "that's above my pay grade" as a way to wash their hands of problems
2. Assume positive intent from leaders
3. Remember that leaders are humans first — they bleed, they have bad days, they're often only 3-5 years into their leadership journey
4. Get in the game instead of sitting in the stands judging
5. Ask questions to understand rather than criticize

Josh shares a powerful story about his child's sports coach who admitted, "I'm still learning how to be a coach. I'm asking you to be patient with me." That vulnerability and honesty is exactly what most leaders are experiencing but rarely feel safe enough to express.

The takeaway: You are part of the problem. Take part in your own rescue. Flip the script.

Josh Anderson's "Leadership Lighthouse"

Dive deeper into the world of Agile leadership and management with Josh Anderson's "Leadership Lighthouse." This bi-weekly newsletter offers insights, tips, and personal stories to help you navigate the complexities of leadership in today's fast-paced tech environment. Whether you're a new manager or a seasoned leader, you'll find valuable guidance and practical advice to enhance your leadership skills. Subscribe to "Leadership Lighthouse" for the latest articles and exclusive content right to your inbox.

Subscribe here

Bob Galen's "Agile Moose"

Bob Galen's "Agile Moose" is a must-read for anyone interested in Agile practices, team dynamics, and personal growth within the tech industry. The newsletter features in-depth analysis, case studies, and actionable tips to help you excel in your Agile journey. Bob brings his extensive experience and thoughtful perspectives directly to you, covering everything from foundational Agile concepts to advanced techniques. Join a community of Agile enthusiasts and practitioners by subscribing to "Agile Moose."

Subscribe here

Do More Than Listen:

We publish video versions of every episode and post them on our YouTube page.

Help Us Spread The Word:

Love our content? Help us out by...

Two veteran engineering leaders reveal the proven hiring principles they independently discovered through building world-class teams. Learn why diversity across all dimensions matters more than rock star resumes, how the 3 A's framework transforms hiring decisions, and why trusting your gut beats following the rules. No theory, just battle-tested approaches that work whether you're in a startup or fighting corporate bureaucracy.

Josh Anderson's "Leadership Lighthouse"

Dive deeper into the world of Agile leadership and management with Josh Anderson's "Leadership Lighthouse." This bi-weekly newsletter offers insights, tips, and personal stories to help you navigate the complexities of leadership in today's fast-paced tech environment. Whether you're a new manager or a seasoned leader, you'll find valuable guidance and practical advice to enhance your leadership skills. Subscribe to "Leadership Lighthouse" for the latest articles and exclusive content right to your inbox.

Subscribe here

Bob Galen's "Agile Moose"

Bob Galen's "Agile Moose" is a must-read for anyone interested in Agile practices, team dynamics, and personal growth within the tech industry. The newsletter features in-depth analysis, case studies, and actionable tips to help you excel in your Agile journey. Bob brings his extensive experience and thoughtful perspectives directly to you, covering everything from foundational Agile concepts to advanced techniques. Join a community of Agile enthusiasts and practitioners by subscribing to "Agile Moose."

Subscribe here

Do More Than Listen:

We publish video versions of every episode and post them on our YouTube page.

Help Us Spread The Word:

Love our content? Help us out by sharing on social media, rating our podcast/episodes on iTunes, or by giving to our Patreon campaign. Every time you give, in any way, you empower our mission of helping as many agilists as possible. Thanks for sharing!