📌 Episode Summary:

In this deeply insightful episode, John sits down with Dr. Paula Swindle—a licensed therapist and professor who has spent a career studying religious trauma —to unpack the concept of spiritual bypass, the psychological consequences of religious trauma, and the subtle ways churches often silence dissent.

Dr. Swindle brings decades of experience working at the intersection of psychology and faith, offering a compassionate and deeply informed perspective for anyone trying to untangle their religious experience from their identity and healing journey. If you’ve ever been told to “just forgive and move on,” this conversation is for you.

Originally recorded for Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, this interview felt too important not to share here as well. For the full series: www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

🔑 Topics Covered:

• What is spiritual bypass and how does it show up in churches?

• Why “positive vibes only” culture can be harmful in religious spaces

• The long-term impact of suppressing anger, grief, and doubt

• How faith communities often retraumatize survivors of abuse

• Practical ways to reclaim your story and find safe support

📚 Recommended Resources:

• Our boy Dan's podcast: You Have Permission: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/when-religion-hurts-you-229/id1448000113?i=1000640316552

🗣️ Join the Conversation:

Have you experienced spiritual bypass or church-related trauma? We’d love to hear your story. Tag us on social media or reach out privately.

#DeconstructionistsPodcast #SpiritualBypass #ChurchTrauma #ReligiousRecovery #FaithAndHealing

📌 Episode Summary:

In Part 2 of this powerful and emotional interview, Adey and Tom Wassink continue their story of navigating faith, integrity, and exclusion. After years of dedicated service in the Vineyard Movement, their decision to affirm LGBTQ people came with real consequences—not just within the church, but in their community, friendships, and calling.

They speak candidly about the silence that followed, the weight of institutional disappointment, and how they found freedom on the other side. This is a story of courage, conviction, and ultimately—hope.

📚 Recommended Follow-Up:

• Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power – Episode 6

• Resources on LGBTQ-affirming theology

• [Music by Q Jones] "Before I Go Home"

🙏 Support the Show:

If this conversation moved you, consider sharing it with a friend, leaving a review, or tagging us on social media. These stories matter—and your voice helps amplify them.

#DeconstructionistsPodcast #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #SpiritualIntegrity #AffirmingFaith

📌 Episode Summary:

In Part 1 of this deeply moving conversation, John sits down with Adey and Tom Wassink—former Vineyard pastors who found themselves quietly pushed to the margins for their commitment to LGBTQ inclusion.

The Wassinks share their story of faithful ministry, their transformation toward a more affirming theology, and the difficult choices they faced as a result. Through heartbreak, resilience, and deep spiritual reflection, they illuminate the cost of integrity within systems resistant to change.

This episode originally aired as part of Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, but their story resonated so powerfully that we wanted to share it here as well.

🎵 Special Note:

The song featured at the end of this episode "Before I Go Home," was written and performed by Q Jones, worship leader at John’s church. The song reflects Q’s own journey and felt especially fitting for this story. Used with permission.

📚 Recommended Resources:

• Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power – Episode 6

🗣️ Share the Conversation:

If this story resonates with you, please consider rating and reviewing the podcast, sharing this episode on social media, and continuing the dialogue with us online using:

#DeconstructionistsPodcast #FaithAndInclusion #LGBTQAffirmingFaith

Subscribe now so you don't miss a single new episode!

www.thedeconstructionists.org

🎙️ Episode Title: John Gets Interviewed: The Story Behind Spoiled Fruit

🎧 Episode Description:

We’re back—and kicking things off with a role reversal. In this special episode of The Deconstructionists, Adam returns to the mic (yes, really!) to interview John about his new investigative podcast Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, which officially drops Tuesday, May 6th.

After over a year of research, interviews, and late-night editing sessions, Spoiled Fruit is ready to be heard. In this episode, we unpack what it’s all about: the rise and fall of a once-promising church movement, how empire-building corrupted the mission, and what happens when growth is prioritized over accountability.

John shares the personal story behind the project, what inspired it, what he uncovered, and why this podcast matters now more than ever. We also talk about the deep emotional weight of telling these stories—and why some of the full-length interviews from Spoiled Fruit will be released right here on The Deconstructionists feed in the coming weeks.

👀 Adam will be back for more episodes soon—and we promise, the next topic will be a little lighter.

🔗 Subscribe to Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power

📱 Apple Podcasts

🎧 Spotify

🌐 Official Website

📌 Subscribe to The Deconstructionists:

🎙️ Apple Podcasts

🎧 Spotify

🌐 www.thedeconstructionists.org

🗓️ Mark Your Calendar:

Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power launches Tuesday, May 6th. Subscribe now so you don’t miss it.

📲 Follow us on social:

Twitter/X: @deconstructcast

Instagram: @deconstructionistspodcast

Spoiled Fruit updates: @spoiledfruitpodcast

🙏 If you love the show, please take a second to rate & review. It really helps others find us.

Thanks for being part of this community—and for being patient while we worked on something that truly matters.

Welcome back to The Deconstructionists Podcast!

Today, we’re excited to re-release one of our most beloved conversations with Father Richard Rohr — a deep-dive interview we originally titled “Richard Rohr 101.”

This is different from the Father Rohr episode we re-released a few weeks ago — that earlier conversation gave a broad overview of his work.

This one? It goes deeper — exploring contemplation, non-duality, spiritual transformation, the Universal Christ, and how we move through the stages of faith with authenticity and courage.

Whether you’re encountering Richard Rohr for the first time or revisiting his wisdom, we think this conversation will challenge and inspire you.

🔥 Big Announcement!

My new investigative podcast, Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power, launches May 6th!

Over a year in the making, Spoiled Fruit takes a hard look at what happens when spiritual movements lose their way — when empire building, growth, and power take precedence over care, accountability, and integrity.

Through investigative reporting and real human stories, we reveal the systemic failures, hidden scandals, and human costs behind modern evangelical institutions.

👉 Subscribe now so you don’t miss the premiere!

🎧 Listen & Subscribe to Spoiled Fruit:

• https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spoiled-fruit-faith-power/id1806119673

www.spoiledfruitpodcast.com

📚 Resources & Links from Today’s Episode:

Father Richard Rohr:

• Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) – Founder’s organization for teaching and spiritual formation

• Books by Richard Rohr

• Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life

• The Universal Christ: How a Forgotten Reality Can Change Everything We See, Hope For, and Believe

• Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer

• Daily Meditations from Richard Rohr

• Center for Action and Contemplation Podcast Network

Follow Father Rohr:

• Instagram: @cacradicalgrace

• YouTube: Center for Action and Contemplation

🎵 Music Credits:

• Theme Song: “Oh, Church” by Forrest Clay

(Follow Forrest on Instagram | Spotify)

• Background Music: Selections by Message To Bears

(Listen on Spotify | Bandcamp)

Big thanks to both Forrest Clay and Message To Bears for creating the beautiful sonic atmosphere that supports these conversations.

🎙️ Stay Connected with The Deconstructionists Podcast:

• Website

• Instagram

• Twitter/X

• Facebook

• Patreon – Support the show and get bonus content!

🎧 Subscribe, rate, and review — it helps us bring these conversations to more listeners around the world!

Episode Description:

In this special re-release, we revisit our 2016 conversation with Father Richard Rohr, a renowned Franciscan friar and ecumenical teacher celebrated for his profound insights into Christian mysticism, contemplation, and action. Father Rohr’s teachings have guided countless individuals on their spiritual journeys, encouraging a deeper understanding of faith and the interconnectedness of all things. Whether you’re hearing this dialogue for the first time or revisiting it, Father Rohr’s wisdom remains as transformative as ever.

Guest Information:

Father Richard Rohr

Father Richard Rohr is a Franciscan priest and the founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Established in 1987, the CAC serves as a hub for contemplative education and practices, aiming to equip individuals to work for positive change in the world. Father Rohr has authored numerous books, including The Universal Christ, Falling Upward, and Everything Belongs.

•Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC): https://cac.org/

•Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CenterforActionandContemplation/

•YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMkqKAtSgijU439fJUNHnkA

Listen to the Episode:

•Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deconstructionists/id1080170463

•Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6Ds1MOzs0z4o4prkkMQ6on

•Official Website: https://thedeconstructionists.org/

Stay Connected:

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to The Deconstructionists Podcast on your preferred platform. Your support helps us continue to bring thought-provoking conversations to the forefront.

Follow us on social media:

•Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DeconstructionistsAnonymous/

•Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deconstructionistspodcast/

Support the Center for Action and Contemplation:

If Father Rohr’s teachings resonate with you, consider exploring more of his work and supporting the Center for Action and Contemplation. The CAC offers a wealth of resources, including online courses, daily meditations, and publications aimed at fostering spiritual growth and contemplative action.

•Website: https://cac.org/

•YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMkqKAtSgijU439fJUNHnkA

Episode Description:

In this special re-release, we revisit our profound conversation with renowned theologian Walter Brueggemann. Known for his influential work on the prophetic imagination, Brueggemann challenges us to envision a world rooted in compassion, justice, and a deep understanding of the Hebrew prophets. Whether you’re hearing this dialogue for the first time or revisiting it, Brueggemann’s insights remain as timely and transformative as ever.

Musical Features:

This episode is enriched with special musical contributions from Forrest Clay and Seabird, whose evocative sounds complement the depth of our discussion.

Featured Music:

🎵 Forrest Clay

An Ohio-based singer-songwriter, Forrest Clay crafts music that delves into the human experience with authenticity and depth. His latest EP, “Recover”, is available now.

•Instagram: @forrestclaymusic

•Latest Single: “Child of War”

🎵 Seabird

Hailing from Independence, Kentucky, Seabird is an alternative rock band known for their piano-driven melodies and introspective lyrics. Their albums, including “’Til We See the Shore” and “Rocks into Rivers”, have captivated audiences with their heartfelt storytelling.

•Official Website: seabirdmusic.com

•Instagram: @seabirdmusic

•Twitter: @seabirdmusic

Stay Connected:

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to The Deconstructionists Podcast on your preferred platform. Your support helps us continue to bring thought-provoking conversations to the forefront.

Follow us on social media:

•Twitter: @deconstructcast

•Instagram: @deconstructionistspodcast

•Facebook: The Deconstructionists Podcast

For updates on our upcoming limited series investigative podcast, “Spoiled Fruit: Faith & Power”, be sure to follow us on social media. This new series will explore the complexities of faith movements and the dynamics of power within them.

Support the Artists:

Music plays a vital role in enriching our episodes. If you resonated with the tracks featured in this episode, consider supporting Forrest Clay and Seabird by streaming their music, following them on social media, and attending their live performances.