We sat down with Jonathan Rauch - a gay, Jewish atheist - to explore his remarkable journey from accepting his sexuality and rejecting religion to becoming a key voice advocating for same-sex marriage and the vital role of Christianity in sustaining liberal, secular democracy.

Key topics include:

- Jonathan's personal wrestle with his sexuality and eventual acceptance

- His commitment to gay and lesbian equality and the social conservative case for same-sex marriage

- The negative effects of secularisation

- The importance of Christian values in supporting liberal democracy and the need for a Christian revival

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🎙️ Follow The Sacred: linktr.ee/sacredpodcast

📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/ 💡 Produced by the ‪@thinktanktheos‬ www.theosthinktank.co.uk/

✍️ Follow Jonathan Rauch: https://x.com/jon_rauch?lang=en

Chapters:

00:00 Intro

00:57 What is Sacred to you? Jonathan Rauch answers

02:48 Childhood Influences and Jewish Identity

05:58 Feeling on the outside

06:58 Trying to be religious

08:47 The Fight for Free Speech and Liberalism

11:52 The Journey to Same-Sex Marriage Advocacy

15:06 Navigating Personal and Public Identity

17:57 Understanding Anger and Tolerance in Debate

19:44 Denial and Acceptance of Same-Sex Attraction

34:28 Advocating for Christianity as an Atheist

36:14 The Consequences of Secularisation

38:19 The Role of Christianity in Democracy

40:42 Core Teachings of Christianity and Liberalism

47:21 The Need for Christianity in Secular Society

51:13 The Search for Transcendence

54:34 Messages for Secular Liberals and Christians

Keywords:

Jonathan Rauch, Liberal democracy, Christianity and politics, Gay rights, Same-sex marriage, Religious freedom, Secular society, American democracy, Political philosophy, Free speech, LGBTQ+ rights, Jewish identity, Atheism, Religious values, Social change, Political discourse, Minority rights, Cultural transformation, Civic engagement, Religious tolerance, Political liberalism, Social conservatism, Identity politics, Democratic values, Religious revival, Intellectual history, Cultural dialogue, Personal identity, Political belief, Social justice, Religious pluralism, American creed, Constitutional values, Community building, Interfaith dialogue, Political moderation, Cultural understanding, Religious institutions, Social cohesion, Intellectual freedom, Political compromise, Religious skepticism, Cultural diversity, Democratic principles, Social transformation, Religious critique, Political philosophy, Civic virtues, Cultural evolution, Intellectual honesty

Bestselling author Caitlin Moran made waves with her 2011 feminist classic How to Be a Woman.

Now, she’s calling for an urgent conversation about the crisis of modern masculinity.In this special live episode of The Sacred, Elizabeth Oldfield and Daniel Turner sit down with Caitlin for a hilarious, moving, and deeply honest conversation that challenges what we think we know about men, women, gender roles, and society today.

Together, they explore:

✖️ The masculinity crisis and the rise of the manosphere

📖 The cultural impact of 'How to Be a Woman'

😡 The intense backlash Caitlin received for writing about boys and men

♂️ Why men struggle with health, identity, and emotional development

🔄 The differences in how society handles midlife crises in men vs women🧠 How we can move beyond stereotypes toward a healthier, more compassionate vision of masculinity

🎥 Recorded at our Sacred Live event

Chapters

00:00 Exploring Gender: The Unasked Questions

01:54 The Sacred Values: Making People Feel Better

04:53 Childhood Influences: A Unique Upbringing

09:51 The Journey of a Writer: From Music Journalism to Feminism

18:00 The Impact of 'How to Be a Woman' and Public Perception

27:01 The Responsibility of Influence: Navigating Public Opinion

28:49 The Art of Persuasion in Writing

30:42 Hospitality in Communication

31:36 The Importance of Awareness

33:13 Navigating Tone and Authenticity

34:54 The Journey to the Times

36:49 Exploring Feminism and Masculinity

37:47 Cultural Shifts in Gender Perception

39:41 Addressing the Crisis of Masculinity

41:31 Feminism's Role in Men's Issues43:16 The Backlash Against Men's Conversations

45:18 The Lack of Resources for Men

47:09 Expanding the Conversation

49:21 Finding Purpose in Modern Society

50:55 The Quest for Meaning

52:45 Cinematic Narratives for Boys and Heroic Archetypes

56:51 The Stiff Upper Lip Mentality

58:34 The Importance of VulnerabilityAudience Q+A

01:02:35 Are there unique differences between men and women?

01:07:21 The Interior Lives of Men

01:10:58 Why are kids terrified of their interior lives?

01:16:41 What is the role of men in modern society?

01:23:11 Navigating anxiety and self care

01:28:40 Elizabeth Oldfield's reflection

Keywords:

Why are teenage boys struggling today? What does it mean to be a man in 2025? Is masculinity in crisis, or just changing? What happened to male role models — and why are so many young men turning to figures like Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson for guidance? How is red pill culture shaping boys' self-image? What does feminism have to say about men, and how can we raise emotionally intelligent boys in a world full of conflicting messages? Are boys being left behind in conversations about gender? What do they need that they’re not getting — from parents, schools, or culture? How is social media — especially TikTok — influencing masculinity, and what impact is it having on mental health? Why do boys struggle to express their emotions, and how can we help them develop emotional resilience? Should we parent boys differently than girls? And what can we learn from shows like Adolescence on Netflix about what it really means to grow up as a boy today?

Driven by a hunger for more, Joshua Luke Smith opens up about his journey with ADHD, addiction, and the unraveling and deconstruction of his faith. In this honest conversation, he invites us to lay down hustle culture, live poetically, and rediscover the sacred in the life we already have.Together with Elizabeth Oldfield, Joshua reflects on his childhood as a missionary kid in Pakistan, the challenges of identity and belonging, and his path toward sobriety, stillness, and spiritual depth. This is a conversation about presence, recovery, and the radical power of living poetically in a world that never stops moving.---🎙️ Follow The Sacred: linktr.ee/sacredpodcast 📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/ 💡 Produced by the ‪@thinktanktheos‬ www.theosthinktank.co.uk/ ✍️ Follow Joshua Luke Smith: https://www.instagram.com/joshualukesmith/?hl=en / https://www.joshualukesmith.com/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAafB24IDAARfb0OoBIDxWdDgh2FEn4Gl0ybjetYKvrQUeP85UlcThuOY-jFwXg_aem_IUFrBFhG23YMfLvi2crXPgCHAPTERS00:00 Intro00:56 What is Sacred to you? Joshua Luke Smith answers03:12 Reflections on Childhood and Belonging05:57 Missionary Life and Its Complexities09:05 Navigating Identity and Spirituality12:12 The Legacy of Colonialism in Mission Work14:53 The Role of Community in Recovery18:04 Drugs, gluttony and ecstatic experiences 21:01 Joshua shares a poem22:24 Understanding Neurodivergence and Belonging29:52 Living Poetically34:00 Exploring Masculinity and Vulnerability40:05 The Role of Fatherhood in Healing46:01 Authenticity and Spirituality in Modern Times49:07 This is the Main Event: Embracing the PresentKEYWORDSsacred, friendship, belonging, missionary, identity, spirituality, colonialism, community, recovery, neurodivergence, poetry, poetry, masculinity, gender, vulnerability, fatherhood, spirituality, authenticity, healing, community, witness, belonging, Spirituality, belonging, masculinity, faith, missionary, ADHD, recovery, addiction, fatherhood, authenticity, identity, chaos, social media, polarisation, slow living, creativity, healing, vulnerability, transformation, purpose, Christian, Jesus, Creative, Addiction, present, writing, healing, meaning, storytelling, community, wounds, redemption, childhood, Pakistan, deconstruction, Christianity, trauma, self-discovery, mental health, inspiration, resilience, mindfulness, empowerment, relationships, spiritual journey, personal growth, emotional intelligence, art, performance, writing, spoken word, meditation, self-acceptance, overcoming, compassion, introspection, wisdom, courage, transformation, hope, T.S. Eliot, Raymond Carver, Tracy Chapman, Wendell Berry, St. Francis, Eugene Peterson, David White, The Fugees#podcast #poet